Transcript of Interview with Deval Sanghavi

Speaker 1: Kerav Agarwal, Founder and CEO of 2Republics 

Speaker 2: Deval Sanghavi, Co-Founder of Dasra

Speaker 3: Abhimanyu Gupta, Co-Founder and COO of 2Republics 

Speaker 1:So thank you so much for being here.If you could just give a quick introductionto who you are and what work you do with your organization at Dasra?

Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much for having us.It's amazing, like I said in my email, that both of you have done this at such a young age.And I think it demonstrates the entrepreneurial spiritand drive you have, as well as your willingness to sort of learn more and get back to the communities.So this is fantastic.My name is Deval Sanghavi I work for the organization called Dasra,which is in light and giving you in Sanskrit.We're based here in Mumbai, we've operated for 25 years anywhere from being an NGO for NGOs.And what that means is sort of supporting the organization's and the leaders who are doing phenomenal work on the ground.But helping them with their planning, with their strategy,with their governance, a whole array of areas

that many times NGO leaders may have gaps or may want a sounding board on.

Our view from the beginning was that there's such amazing groups that are supporting communities.But no one's really helping these groups to perform better, to think differently,to sort of help them achieve some of their aspirations in terms of impact and scale.And so that's sort of how we started out as an organization,which I guess in 1990 was quite unique at the time.And since then, I've progressed to not just work with NGOs,but also work with funders, many philanthropists and foundations have come to us to sort of getsupport and advice on their strategies,how they can create greater and back to the ground.And then finally, we sort of run collaborative,which is bringing funders, NGOs, and government together,many times taking 15-20 year horizons on certain issues,where everyone sort of comes together to help India get closer to achieve its commitment to the SDGs. And so these are just briefly kind of what we do as an organization.

 Speaker 1: That's great.You know, India and the United States Obviously have deepening ties in business and defense.But what about social impact?And where do you see the biggest opportunities for India and the United States to collaborate on solving global challenges like climate change,education, or public health?

 Speaker 2: So I think they're, so first of all,scale in India is very different than scale

in most of the world.We have 1.4 billion citizens of the country and unfortunately still have close to a billion that do not access health care, quality education,sanitation, housing, unfortunately,the list goes on and on. And so I think with that frugal innovation in India,it's not sort of a buzzword or a jargon, it's a necessity. And so I remember years ago, for example,after the Haiti earthquake, President Clinton took Desh Deshwande and Akshay Pathra to Haitito see how the midday meals program,which was created here in the late 90s,could actually support in feeding people after the disaster and post the disaster as well.And so I feel from that perspective, there's quite a bit that India has sort of learned and continues to sort of implement some aspects of it,maybe more applicable, I guess, to a US context.On the flip side, I think what we've seen in the US really plays well is the fact that this sort of wealth creation has happened far before it's happened here in India.There is a role for the US to bring sort of tried practices sort of their knowledge on how things work

and not everything is adaptable to the Indian context, but I think they have some frameworks that are quite useful.I think there's also a maturity of the non-profit sector in the US, which is quite different than in India.And so I think there are learnings there as well.And then finally, I think some of the large foundations that are based out of the US that get globally like Ford, MacArthur, Gates Foundation,they continue to support different initiatives in India, given that they have a global mandate and themselves have realized that there's a lot of frugal innovation, scale, and need that exist in the country. And so I think those are some of the ways. I think we're seeing the sort of knowledge transfer happening between the two countries.

Speaker 1:No, yeah, that's great.And it's good to know that since the Clinton administration,There has been more work.Obviously more work needs to be done,but hopefully there is more work that has been going on.Has Dasara ever worked on an initiative that directly influenced government policy?And if yes, what does that process look like or does it even exist at all?

Speaker 2: So I think there's been multiple programs that we have worked with that support in strengthening government programming and policy.And so a lot of the organizations that we support actually work hand in hand with the government to improve the quality of education or health care supplement, for example, the Midday Meals Program In Akshay Kathra, the example that I already gave.I think what's most governments around the world run on what seems to be in our never ending election cycles.And because of that, their ability to sort of take risks, pilot innovation within the government sort of sector, as well as that times connect with the community as a whole,is somewhat difficult. And I think that's where the NGOs come in

to sort of pilot different programs, see what's happening,and then use that sort of proof of concept to then support the government under policy.So one of the big areas, for example, that we've been focusing on,relate specifically to sanitation,ensuring that households have access to not just toilets, but also the waste within that toilet is then treated before it goes into the water supply.And so over the past decade, we've been the secretariat of an alliance called a national fecal sludge and suffrage alliance National Fecal and Sludge Alliance NFS, SN, and in that, we're able to sort of work with universities, work with the organizations, work with the government, figure out what or some of the best practices that exist, document them, and provide that knowledge to the government, both at a national state and use of holiday level, because sanitation to rape pipes, for example, is still very much something that the government does, not necessarily the private sector, but we're able to bring all of these groups together to sort of make sure that people have a dignified place to use the restroom every day, and there's a proper treatment of that waste, which does something for the food or water supply. So that's just an example, but most of the organizations we work with support the government, sort of a hand and hand like the government has the scale,they have the funding, they actually have quite a bit of knowledge to know how, but where NGOs come in is to improve certain aspects, private certain things, and again, do greater outreach in the community.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you've touched on private and public partnerships, they're obviously a huge part of philanthropy now. What makes these partnerships actually work, instead of just being an actual symbolic message? What motivates them to actually do the work in that area?

Speaker 2: I think like with any collaboration, the first, I think, aspect is to sort of align

on a particular area, and that area is not sanitation per se,but it could be the treatment of waste in decentralized platforms. And the reason I bring that specificity up is, I think it's bringing the stakeholders together, first of all, aligning on what the goal is in terms of impacting lives, and then figuring out what are the one or two things these collaborators can work towards. I think many times organizations get wrong because they don't spend enough time in the trust building or the alignment and the creation of joint goals, as well as the honest and upfront visibility, I guess, or articulation of where people's key strengths lie as well as where their key weaknesses lie. And so that entire process many times takes months if not years to sort of put together. And so we have multiple collaboratives that we work on, whether it's in climate, informal workers, sanitation, the empowerment of adolescent girls, and in each of these, I think we've spent a lot of time in effort in bringing the right stakeholders together, creating that trust, that understanding, that deep belief in terms of impacting community should, and that always has to be at the core, and then sort of working backwards to figure out how we can, as a group,

collectively, support these initiatives. I think when it doesn't work out is when you're not including the community voice constantly, and so then it becomes more of a top-down approach. Another way, reason it doesn't work out is when egos get in the way, and I think that's really important to, therefore, always keep the community at the core and keep understanding or questioning how, as a group, collectively, we're listening to them, not the other way around.Because the second we start listening to ourselves, then we may sort of, you know, the NGOs, for example, may have a greater say, or the donors may have a greater say, or the government may have a greater say, and that kind of defeats the purpose of a partnership. And so it takes a lot of trust building, it takes a lot of planning, and it takes a lot of sort of

continuously improving the aspects of the program. I think where we get it, unfortunately,the difficulties arise when the individuals who are representing these institutions get transferred or changed. Because it's very much based on not just the institution commitment, but at the end of the personal commitment that people make towards that process and compromise. And so I think that's where it gets a little cumbersome when you have, let's say, 10 stakeholders together, and if two or three of those stakeholders leave every year for a variety of reasons, you kind of have to start from ground zero again.

Speaker 3: Building off on that, like you mentioned, something as going from the top going down, you launched GivingPi, Network for India's wealthiest families to collaborate on philanthropy. Could you expand a little more on what you do here as well, and how that sort of overall connects to your mission?

Speaker 2: Sure, sure. So first of all, we try to be cool with the names,

I apologize for that, but it's GivingPi. And the reason we've called it GivingPie,

there's a great TED Talk video about growing the pie of philanthropy. And so many times NGOs and donors and government, for that matter, think that the amount of funding is scarce, and therefore it becomes a far more competitive landscape than a collaborative landscape. Because people think there's only X amount of money available, and if I don't get the grant, that means I will not survive. And so this particular TED Talk was around how, as a society, we could actually grow the amount of giving.And if one is able to do so, then you're able to access a much larger amount of funds. It's not as competitive or scarce as we think it is. And then you can actually have well-funded, well sort of instituted or executed programs. And so we call this GivingPi because we felt in a similar sort of view that there is quite a bit of interest

of giving within India and to India. Lots of times people are busy sort of running their full-time businesses, creating wealth, creating jobs, doing things that the private sector does well in. And therefore don't have time to necessarily focus on the charitable or the philanthropic side of things. So by creating a community of your givers, we've realized that if we bring families together, number one, we're able to make it more top of mind than perhaps it is. Number two, there are definitely learnings and experiences amongst this network that can be shared.

And mistakes that have been made that others do not have to make. And number three, I think just creating a platform that's focusing on giving to India allows also for top leaders, experts and NGOs to sort of provide their knowledge to a much larger group of families versus individually working with them one-on-one. And so really the goal for us was to how do you create a community of givers, so they learn off of each other, they thrive from each other. and there's a little bit of positive influence, and maybe even competitiveness lets exist on how these families can do more for India and create greater impact.

Speaker 3: I really like the fact that you touched on that part of creating a community of givers. India itself has a long history of community giving, things like temple donations and local charity work. How can large-scale philanthropy like these connect with these small grassroots traditions that we have embedded in our society?

Speaker 2: And so I think a lot of this starts with awareness. And so we have written 80 plus research reports that are all available freely on one website, which kind of helps people understand the issues that exist and the solutions that are currently being implemented for those issues. And I say this as many times, like you said, we're rich on community, but many times these communities are not aware of the issues that exist either within the community or within the country as a whole. So for us, I guess providing this sort of knowledge and research on different topics and issues, providing exposure to the communities and the phenomenal NGO leaders that are supporting these communities, I think that connect is really, really important. And what we've seen at least is once you're able to create that awareness, create that connection, usually these existing communities want to give effectively together, but it is definitely a journey. And that's something, again, that's what I've been doing for decades.

 Speaker 1: Great, thank you. You've worked on engaging the Indian diaspora

in global philanthropy for a while. What are some of the most exciting ways

that NRIs and other Indians living across the globe can give back to India right now?

 Speaker 2: I think one of the things that's been amazing that we've seen at least in a semi-sleeve is how Indian solutions that have been created here that have worked

phenomenally well that have scaled within a city, a state, or even a country

have now been actually taken globally. Because there's far greater similarities, for example, with countries in Africa, as with states in India than they are with the socio-economic conditions and solutions for that matter in the West. And so I think on one hand, we're seeing this great group of organizations that are now scaling outside. And I think that's one area where they may  Indiaspora and play a role in supporting those particular initiatives in the countries that they live in, just like many Indians who are critical in terms of ensuring that the corporate boom of India moved outside of India as well and thrived and people across the world were sort of making connects ensuring that these companies can get a full holding in different countries

and have access to networks in connection. So that's one way the diaspora can do this

in the countries that they live in. I think another is definitely funding, just from today, which is sort of February 2025, the exchange rates with the dollar and would be 1 to 87, and so there's just, The conversion rate itself means the dollar, of course, stretches far more in this context. And so we have seen, for example, Indians living abroad, not just funding organizations, but coming to voice in them, Icon for those, one of the first organizations, Indian nonprofits to set up a large fundraising and an affinity group in the US to get to India and to get to prop them. And this was in the late 90s, early 2000s, but since then, many large organizations have been able to do so. And one of the things we're trying to sort of focus on is how do we help the smaller organizations also access these funds. So we have something called the Build India Fund, where we're supporting 200 small organizations across the country. This is led by leaders who are approximate to the community and have lit experiences, which means many times they themselves have been oppressed or faced, excuse me, certain challenges, such as being an asset attack survivor and created an organization to help other asset attack survivors. So we're helping these groups sort of gain greater credibility to access funding from not just within India, but outside of India. And we're seeing that the diaspora then can not only provide funding, but they're also able to provide mentorship support to these organizations, which are quite critical, especially for many of those who don't speak English, may not even speak Hindi.

So they really need people who can, for example, help them write a English for a website or fill out a donor report or support on the accounts compilation in Excel. And so these are the kind of things that we're seeing the diaspora really playing a much larger role in, getting back both their time as well as their funding.

Speaker 3: So you had touched on the point of how there is funding coming from India as well. Looking ahead, how do you think that philanthropy in India specifically will change over the next decade?

Speaker 2: So I think a few great things have happened in the country. So it's the number one just wealth creation after the liberalization of our economy has really taken shape in the form. And so we have an ever growing group of millionaires and billionaires of the country and with wealth creation, of course, philanthropy follows. And so we release a state of India philanthropy report every year. And we've seen giving with eyes and so high net with individuals and ultra high net worth individuals have been growing at about 8 to 10% annual growth rate, which has been fantastic. In that particular report, which we started in 2009, for example, private philanthropic giving as a percentage of GDP in India was about 0.2% and now it's about 1%. So it's gone up significantly in the last 15,16 years. To give your listeners a sense of the US that's been somewhat stable since the 70s at about 2 to 2.3% and this is in addition to all of the huge sort of commitments that many tech entrepreneurs have made

in the last two decades, even then that's been somewhat constant. So the fact that Indian giving is increasing is great. We also were one of the first countries in the World to institute mandatory giving for corporates. So in 2014, 15, who passed a law that mandated all companies that have budgets over a certain amount have to give 2% of their profits towards charity. So that's also not just greater capital, but I think more importantly, the media has covered a lot of the social programs and issues far more than they were before this law was passed. And from that group, I guess what we have seen as most of our publicly traded companies in India are still family run.

And so for them, many of them were doing sort of some level of CSR and philanthropy from the beginning. But this 2% has maybe increased their giving or for many families has enabled them their toe into giving and through their experiences, they're actually ending up giving far greater amounts of their own worth towards philanthropy. And so we have a handful of Indian families that have also signed a giving pledge, which means they're giving a half a billion dollars or more in shares we're giving in their lifetime. And so these are sort of upticks, I think, of how domestic giving will actually surpass foreign funding that comes into the country, hopefully in the next decade.

 Speaker 1: That's great. Finally, a lot of young people want to make an impact. But don't know where to start. What advice would you give to someone who's maybe a high school or college student who wants to get involved in social impact and philanthropy and other NGOs?

Speaker 2: So we started a program a few years ago called the Young Philanthropist Program, which is a two-week program that we have here in India. When you have students dial in online and really to answer this question.one sort of way of doing is to participate in a somewhat more formalized program.The benefit of doing so is you have access to more opportunities, more sort of learning. And you are, again, of the community of individuals that are like-minded. And so the YPP program, the Young Philanthropist Program, we have students, high school students, and some college students come spend two weeks during the summer holidays, the U.S. summer holidays. So from June to June or July, we'll spend two weeks here. And there's a combination of going into the field to seek out communities that are lifting themselves out of these various hardships, meet their NGO leaders, and philanthropy to them. We also have a tie-up in this particular program with Stanford PACS, which is the land

to be the civil society department at Stanford, where we have their professors that are coming in and providing some knowledge and support to these participants in the program and the participants in the program create a sort of a plan to support other organizations. And so we mentor them through this process. So that's one program, for example, that exists. I think another is if you're coming to India, I think, and if you have time to volunteer, I graduated the semester early from University of Texas at Austin in the mid-90s, came to India and volunteered within the organization. And I feel that really changed my perception on a lot of things. I thought I was going to come and volunteer and help the community where from day one,I learned far more from the community than I could teach and that continues to list day. So I think there are more and more of these sorts of opportunities to shadow organizations, volunteer within, get engaged and involved. And then I think from the US perspective, you've been fundraising for some of these groups. So I've just spent time in this young philanthropy program, for example, which was based in Singapore. He has been fundraising for some of the smaller organizations in India, given the proximity between Singapore and India. He's also come and visited them on the field. And it's also helped them think through, for example, farming innovations and other aspects of development. And so I think that connect is really, really important. And just given the information flow and contact, so that exists today versus in the 90s, there are many more opportunities, I will say, for young people to get involved

in getting engaged time before.

Speaker 1: No, that's some very valuable information. I think we learned a lot about how the youth can get involved and how partnerships, especially between India and the United States and especially the world. Now India can become a leader in philanthropy in the future.That's very important and the importance of giving back to the community as well.